Joe Wilson Lied!!! HR 3200 Does Not Cover Illegals

News Type: Event — Seeded on Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:11 PM EDT

politics, health-care-reform, joe-wilson, hr-3100

HR3200 Sec 246 Go straight to Page 143.
http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Joe Wilson LIED!!!

Look at it clearly. No coverage for undocumenteds. Then he insulted the president and the American people in front of congress and diplomatic corps.

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

I have captured screen here for those who will not even scroll down or dont have pdf:
http://kenny.netvios.com/hr3200_does_not_cover_illegals.asp
http://kenny.netvios.com/hr_3200_246_full.jpg
http://kenny.netvios.com/hr_3200_sec246.jpg

Published to:

J. Richter's Column, All of Newsvine
Groups: Alternative Energy - Greenvine, Army4Truth, Environment, Free Market, Newsvine Community, ObamaExpress, ObamaVine, Oil, Open Minded, Political Analysis, Skeptics, The Big 2008 Election, The Truth Network
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4.6

{"commentId":9378607,"authorDomain":"JRichter"}

J. Richter

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

{"commentId":9378607,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"JRichter"}

4 votes

#1 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:12 PM EDT

{"commentId":9379780,"authorDomain":"douglasq"}

douglasq

Where are Wilson and the GOP getting this then? Is it just flat-out fear mongering of the Fox News variety? Or does Wilson honestly think he can point to a "smoking gun" buried somewhere in the legislation?

{"commentId":9379780,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"douglasq"}

7 votes

#1.1 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:40 PM EDT

{"commentId":9383428,"authorDomain":"michelleUT"}

MichelleUT

Where are Wilson and the GOP getting this then? Is it just flat-out fear mongering of the Fox News variety? Or does Wilson honestly think he can point to a "smoking gun" buried somewhere in the legislation?

Sensationialism. They're the party of the one-issue voter - immigration is a touchy issue, and they know they can get votes based off of it.

{"commentId":9383428,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"michelleUT"}

3 votes

#1.2 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:12 PM EDT

{"commentId":9385566,"authorDomain":"st-theresa"}

Ellen-for-Obama

The speech made too much sense. Wilson must have been squirming in his chair, thinking that some of the lunatics he condones might actually be changing their minds in the face of such common sense. And he had to put a stop to it.

{"commentId":9385566,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"st-theresa"}

4 votes

#1.3 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:18 PM EDT

{"commentId":9385800,"authorDomain":"deajon"}

deajon

If it's not a lie, it certainly is not clear. Affordability credits is NOT the same as public option. Read section 246, for starters.

Also, FYI: "Affordability credits can be used to offset the cost of health care coverage for individuals who enroll in private insurance plans, but there is currently no provision barring illegal aliens from enrolling in the taxpayer-funded public plan..."

And then there are those funds that are a part of the healthcare bill that are really not considered federal funds, so it's a play on words, like the monies from private health premiums. O knows what he's doing, so Wilson isn't wrong. Probably shouldn't have shouted it out, but I don't know that he's wrong.

So, let's hear O say, in no uncertain terms, illegal aliens WILL NOT, be covered in any way. not just federal funds, but no funding from anywhere. hmmm, that's not what he said now is it???

{"commentId":9385800,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"deajon"}

1 vote

#1.4 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:23 PM EDT

{"commentId":9386048,"authorDomain":"deajon"}

deajon

Read: (Richter), affordability credits is not the same as public option.

...Government studies confirm that statutory bars, like Section 246, are ineffective by themselves to protect taxpayers...

{"commentId":9386048,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"deajon"}

#1.5 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:30 PM EDT

{"commentId":9387839,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}

lisaed

J. Richter: And what proof of citizenship will be required by the bill? And how will this in a universal obamacare world be enforced so that we can be certain that all illegal immigrants are denied treatments on federal (taxpayer) dollars? Please be specific. Thanks.

{"commentId":9387839,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"lisaed"}

2 votes

#1.6 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:29 PM EDT

{"commentId":9388516,"authorDomain":"JRichter"}

J. Richter

lisaed. I've argued with you before and you've presented good arguments. You are wrong here and you should abandon a weak nonsense and present reasoned argument in the lines that Reagan would. No additional citizenship requirement exists for MEdicare and MEdicaid and illegals hardly ever dare falsely apply. From your position I am not surprised you do not realize this about illegals always avoiding to come ou tof the shadow in that manenr and get on fast track to deportation rolls. The Bill makes it a felony to offer federal credits to illegals.

deajon. Yes illegals may dare apply for public option at the risk of coming out of the shadow. But then illegals can buy private insurance right now also. Remember the key yesterday. SAY IT WITH ME: The public plan will not be tax payer subsidized (or it will be unfair competition mechanism) but will be funded by premium same as private insurance. Must all laws be tied to immigration. Why dont we take up the issue of why they are here illegally in the rightful bill - that of immigration reform. Again we are discussing 3% of the population (just find that on government website or Wikipedia that though I have it if you ask) and the chances that an even smaller percentage of them will fraudulently apply for governemnt help or PAY for insurance from money they earn. Granted they shouldnt be here in the first place but that is immigration reform.

Why not make a case to take up the 2006 failed immigration reform rather than defend the article about calling the president a liar on wording that couldnt be more clear?

{"commentId":9388516,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"JRichter"}

#1.7 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:52 PM EDT

{"commentId":9388717,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}

lisaed

J Richter---so your answer to my question re: proof of citizenship is thusly: NONE required. Got it.

{"commentId":9388717,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"lisaed"}

2 votes

#1.8 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:59 PM EDT

{"commentId":9388913,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}

lisaed

And PS---in defense of my argument here I provide the following (all of which underlies the frustration of those such as Wilson) in listening to our President repeatedly misrepresent the facts:

There is an element of convenient fantasy as well in Obama's health care statements to date. We are going to save money by spending money. We are going to solve our fiscal problems with a program that will increase the national debt by $1 trillion over a decade. We are going to guarantee you can keep your current insurance with a bill that encourages your employer to stop offering it.

The list goes on. We are going to improve health care for seniors by cutting $500 billion from Medicare. We aren't going to insure illegal aliens, except that we won't have any verification provisions to see that they can't apply and get benefits.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/09/10/the_convenient_fantasies_of_president_obama_98235.html

{"commentId":9388913,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"lisaed"}

2 votes

#1.9 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:06 PM EDT

{"commentId":9391936,"authorDomain":"JRichter"}

J. Richter

I think this comment belongs to a different forum. And you will be just as wrong on it. Its the same reason why students and med schoolers every year take loans and get into debt temporarily and then earn six digits and pay the debt rather than work at McDonalds all their lives without debt. When your economy is impaired like ours was and collapsing you cant cling to one neuron brain cell simplicity such as "save all you have".

Also, a country is not same as an individual. When an economy is collapsing and losing jobs at a fast rate, folks stop spending, more job losses leads to less to spend meaning companies have less customers and lay off more, leading to less spending, till a depression. It happened before. Government is the only entity that can stop that death spiral. And it worked.

I did not purpose to nor plan to answer any mandatory questions in this thread beyond who lied - Wilson or Obama. And clearly based on the bill, Wilson LIED!!! McCain even admitted it as did several republicans today even though they twisted into a pretzel to explain technicalities of how a loophole could occur. They never said so before, they outright LIED to the American people that illegals WOULD be covered like it was the default. A health care bill can not also become a comprehensive immigration reform bill or be crafter predominantly constrained because a fraction of 3% of the population could fraudulently gain coverage. HOW MANY AMERICANS HAVE PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP? Is that driver's licenses? Or mothers's should drag their birth certificate to hospitals? Maybe we profile to request it? Those questions are why that belongs in immigration reform.

{"commentId":9391936,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"JRichter"}

#1.10 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:29 PM EDT

{"commentId":9392024,"authorDomain":"arlene-2"}

Arlene Tognetti

Joe Wilson just has to get his facts straight...

but then again....

Joe Wilson....Lied no question in the world!!

good find...

thanks!

{"commentId":9392024,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"arlene-2"}

1 vote

#1.11 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:34 PM EDT

{"commentId":9392305,"authorDomain":"JRichter"}

J. Richter

Spread the word!

{"commentId":9392305,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"JRichter"}

#1.12 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:49 PM EDT

{"commentId":9467726,"authorDomain":"molliebea"}

MaryEllen Galloway

Hi JR: It is "like beating a dead horse". NO MATTER what you say or show as real documentation, "these right-wing nuts" will not believe you because it would make their erroneous falsehoods and " talking points" moot!

I taught adult learners at the college level for over 6 years, and one of my mentors told me: "I understand and appreciate what you are trying to convey but some of them will never get it/accept it (a change in policy and delivery of services on a state-wide basis that would affect their jobs). This mentor went on to tell me that " You are an excellent instructor, but you must let those unwilling to accept this information, continue to fail.

It is not you, it is them."

I have talked here on NV until I was blue in the face, all for naught. I have given up on trying to convince these brainwashed wingers, who are in deep denial, about this and other democratic led issues.

Remember, they are following the Repugnant party of "NO". And this means 'no matter- no way- no how'!

Change is Scary!

{"commentId":9467726,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"molliebea"}

#1.13 - Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:11 AM EDT

{"commentId":9467930,"authorDomain":"WILDWONDERFUL"}

WILDWONDERFUL

MaryEllen

We passed a law in Oklahoma that to do business with an illegal was a crime.

Guess who squealed ?

{"commentId":9467930,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"WILDWONDERFUL"}

#1.14 - Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:19 AM EDT

{"commentId":9380247,"authorDomain":"JRichter"}

J. Richter

Just like a doctor discussing wishes of the patient one-on-one with a doctor became a "death panel" inferring a bunch of people and including government agents. This is not the only outright lie. The GOP is directly insulting the American people.

{"commentId":9380247,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"JRichter"}

7 votes

#2 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:51 PM EDT

{"commentId":9385934,"authorDomain":"deajon"}

deajon

It's only insulting if you don't get it Richter, and you don't.

{"commentId":9385934,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"deajon"}

#2.1 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:26 PM EDT

{"commentId":9386252,"authorDomain":"deajon"}

deajon

And Richter, do your homework before you seed a topic you don't have near the facts.

{"commentId":9386252,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"deajon"}

#2.2 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:35 PM EDT

{"commentId":9388813,"authorDomain":"JRichter"}

J. Richter

How illuminating. all the facts are right in that one line, no links, no reason.It is you that dont get it. You have been manipulated to carry water for the insurance industry by those enjoying government insurance. I could also say the same: I'm wise u are not. You have no fact. Actually, u dont even present anything!

{"commentId":9388813,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"JRichter"}

1 vote

#2.3 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:02 PM EDT

{"commentId":9467960,"authorDomain":"WILDWONDERFUL"}

WILDWONDERFUL

No democrats are insulting me by not telling me how your going to honestly pay for this outrageous bill

{"commentId":9467960,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"WILDWONDERFUL"}

#2.4 - Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:20 AM EDT

{"commentId":9382296,"authorDomain":"gshaverpioneer"}

3rdtime

So, what's new? Too many of our "leaders" believe that we are not citizens, but sheep. When part of their constituency acts the part, it only encourages them.

It is possible that they believe illegals working for US companies will be covered. This may be true. If they have presented documentation, valid or not, that the employer is required to accept as proof of eligibility to work in the US, our medical providers won't be able to tell the difference, either.

{"commentId":9382296,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"gshaverpioneer"}

#3 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:41 PM EDT

{"commentId":9383371,"authorDomain":"douglasq"}

douglasq

So the Obama administration is to be faulted for the illegal acts of others?

That's like saying they are for goverment hand-outs because bank robbers exist.

{"commentId":9383371,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"douglasq"}

3 votes

#3.1 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:10 PM EDT

{"commentId":9383031,"authorDomain":"nickthehunter"}

4wheelinchevy

Obama meant that illegals wont be covered because the next step is to get millions and millions of new voters. You can't have new voters without insurance now can you.

{"commentId":9383031,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"nickthehunter"}

#4 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:00 PM EDT

{"commentId":9383303,"authorDomain":"douglasq"}

douglasq

That made no sense.

{"commentId":9383303,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"douglasq"}

4 votes

#4.1 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:08 PM EDT

{"commentId":9383726,"authorDomain":"JRichter"}

J. Richter

I scratch my head too. say what?

That post probably explains why anyone could be defending lies and mistatements presented in place of reason and argument. Either very low comprehension skills or too much hate radio. I cant even decipher from reading that.

{"commentId":9383726,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"JRichter"}

3 votes

#4.2 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:21 PM EDT

{"commentId":9384968,"authorDomain":"sendlo"}

sendlo

It was a basic "He could be sh*tting gold, but I still hate Obama" rant.

{"commentId":9384968,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"sendlo"}

1 vote

#4.3 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:58 PM EDT

{"commentId":9387609,"authorDomain":"nickthehunter"}

4wheelinchevy

ex. Obama passes health care and then sometime down the road gives illegals amnesty (which also means more dem voters) or something that is basically the same. Therefore illegals are now legal citizens and we are not covering "illegals".

{"commentId":9387609,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"nickthehunter"}

#4.4 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:20 PM EDT

{"commentId":9388984,"authorDomain":"JRichter"}

J. Richter

That Obama votes in congress (what happened to the three arms of government)? Anyone remembers 2006 and immigration reform?

Assume that this is right. Is the logic that "Obama is lying because he would cover Americans when they are legal who were onece immigrants"

This absurdity and hate-blindness is stunning! Immigrants have become Americans for centuries including some generationof yours and ine and including once illegal immigrants. We would never do anything useful for Americans again if we consider those that will become Americans via naturalization someday. Now we are still trying to design best policy for Americans based on 3% (check government websites or Wikipedia or ask me for reputable link) of illegal immigrants and the even smaller percentage that may make it as Americans someday right? Common 4wheel!! Common fellow citizen!!

{"commentId":9388984,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"JRichter"}

#4.5 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:09 PM EDT

{"commentId":9386573,"authorDomain":"deajon"}

deajon

And by the way, if Harry Reid can call Bush a liar, and NOT apologize, then Wilson isn't any worse for calling Obama a liar, at least he APOLOGIZED for it..

And yes they both lied, deal with it, but Wilson was the bigger person. So kudos to him....

{"commentId":9386573,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"deajon"}

1 vote

#5 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:44 PM EDT

{"commentId":9387771,"authorDomain":"douglasq"}

douglasq

but Wilson was the bigger person

My six-year old son is a bigger person than Wilson was during Obama's speech.

{"commentId":9387771,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"douglasq"}

1 vote

#5.1 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:26 PM EDT

{"commentId":9387961,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}

lisaed

douglas---and I'll bet your six year old son does better with representing the truth than does Obama.

{"commentId":9387961,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"lisaed"}

1 vote

#5.2 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:34 PM EDT

{"commentId":9389109,"authorDomain":"JRichter"}

J. Richter

Just throw in some morally relative but totally incongrous analogy? Are you following ye of the 'you dont get it post'? No one would require Wislon apologise if he called Obama a liar on his own speech, watch, or even in congress as anyone has done already and maybe did to Bush. What he did was unacceptable in a joint address of congess. That's why republicans demanded he apologise. Talk about getting it.

I marvel how sometimes some rightwingers do not know when to phone in a losing argument. You could find a strong hand on another issue but there are times to walk away from obvious inanity.

{"commentId":9389109,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"JRichter"}

#5.3 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:14 PM EDT

{"commentId":9389398,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}

lisaed

That's why republicans demanded he apologise.

J Richter---And Rep Wilson phoned the White House to do JUST that last night (and I understand the apology was accepted).....did Reid apologize ever? I don't think so.

{"commentId":9389398,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"lisaed"}

1 vote

#5.4 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:26 PM EDT

{"commentId":9392095,"authorDomain":"JRichter"}

J. Richter

My post is response to the defense of the conduct. If not, all's well. He realized he was wrong, he apologized, the apology was accepted. It's someone typing here defending an insult to an American institution that I responded to. Presidents come and go - the position remains as does the precedent. What Wilson did at the joint address no one has a precedent to going back centuries.

Again, Wilson should not be required to apologise if he called the President a liar in the appropriate forum as Reid did. How hard is that? This is also not the first time Obama was called a liar and no one has to apologise. Folks even brought guns combined with implied threatening signs. Demoratic congressmen have been called more in town halls without apology. Wilson should enjoy the first ammendment like anyone given the right venue even if he is wrong.

{"commentId":9392095,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"JRichter"}

1 vote

#5.5 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:37 PM EDT

{"commentId":9468043,"authorDomain":"molliebea"}

MaryEllen Galloway

#5.5: JR: again, apparently some of these posters just don't get it: It is NOT about WHAT this man said, it is HOW he did it! He showed no respect, no decorum or regard for protocol - or is that too much to expect these people to understand? Maybe it is. How ill-mannered have they become if that is not understand. What happened to manners that were learned in kindergarten?

{"commentId":9468043,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"molliebea"}

#5.6 - Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:23 AM EDT

{"commentId":9390388,"authorDomain":"Blearc"}

Blearc

It basically breaks down to the xenophobes, (who must be all native american, right?) have found something to latch onto to defeat health care reform. If health care reform doesn't fix the immigration issue then that is why they cant be for it.

If one single non native is treated because of health care reform then that would prove that the USA is socialist.

Immigration is an issue, considering it takes over ten years to become nationalized I would say its an issue on both sides of the fence. But so is our population and viable workforce which will shrink incredibility very soon. Them boomers will start breaking down, especially since there aren't enough workers to pay for their medicare. Social security is in the red in three years unless we see a huge jump in incomes.

But the point is, health care is broke and refusing to fix it because you'd rather live behind an Iron wall with only a couple approved points of entry (yeah I watch the idiot Beck) really shows ones focus in life.

{"commentId":9390388,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"Blearc"}

#6 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:10 PM EDT

{"commentId":9392243,"authorDomain":"JRichter"}

J. Richter

See it for what it is. No one ever seems to worry about European immigration. There are illegal and overstayed Britons, Australians in this country. And there are outright illegal Polish, Slovaks, and Bulgarians. I know quite a few. The turn of this century was mass illegal immigration from Europe. I dont obsess over it and I dont like illegal immigration as much as anyone. Illegals still represent less than 3% of the population and they actually comprise a neessary and useful part of our economy as you shrewdly acknowldged. Ask the farm community, or our high-tech industries. Irrespective, refusing to craft solutions for Americans without this constraining obsession is some different motivation (and those folks who hold that obsession cant identify it in themselves nor care).

{"commentId":9392243,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"JRichter"}

1 vote

#6.1 - Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:45 PM EDT

{"commentId":9417462,"authorDomain":"WILDWONDERFUL"}

WILDWONDERFUL

Sure it covers illegals

{"commentId":9417462,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"WILDWONDERFUL"}

#7 - Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:00 PM EDT

{"commentId":9425934,"authorDomain":"JRichter"}

J. Richter

Another four words of wisdom even after seeing contrary evidence in black and white.

Illegals have always been able to "buy" health insurance and will continue to do so. They are also allowed to buy milk, bread, cars, and car insurance. The argument is really silly. Solving immigration issues is an comprehensive immigration bill's job. The president said new provisions of the bill does not cover illegal aliens and he is right as the bill clearly states.

{"commentId":9425934,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"JRichter"}

#7.1 - Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:52 AM EDT

{"commentId":9426548,"authorDomain":"WILDWONDERFUL"}

WILDWONDERFUL

So how about a bounty on illegals

{"commentId":9426548,"threadId":"672739","contentId":"3247506","authorDomain":"WILDWONDERFUL"}

#7.2 - Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:31 AM EDT

{"canLink":false,"threadId":"672739","isPrivate":false}

J. RICHTER

Backyard

Joe Wilson Lied!!! HR 3200 Does Not Cover Illegals

Published to:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

FUN STUFF:

COMPANY STUFF:

LEGAL STUFF: